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Talk:Joram Talid
no longer racist? If you save Joram, will he no longer be anti-human? [[User:LordDeathRay|'LordDeathRay']] (Comm Chatter) 02:37, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :Impossible to know, considering he isn't around anywhere after Thane's mission. Matt 2108 02:39, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Half of politics is business, so I doubt he'll be changing his political platform. I figure he's kinda like Greg Stillson, seeking the support of whatever constituency will give him power.--Darth Something 19:13, January 8, 2011 (UTC) Do you think he will still be racist? [[User:LordDeathRay|'LordDeathRay']] (Comm Chatter) 03:35, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :Was he ever racist to begin with? I don't recall seeing anything that suggested he was. Remember, racist means believing in the inherent genetic superiority of ones own people over others, and/or displaying hatred of and intolerance towards other races. Talid clearly dislikes humans, but none of his comments suggested that he believes turians are inherently superior by virtue of superior genes, and he has shown that he tolerates humans, he just doesn't want them in power. It is possible to dislike members of another race or culture without being racist. SpartHawg948 04:51, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :Semantic tricks like that are only used by bigots to get away with hate. Don't be tricked by that kind of stuff! 18:03, March 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Bigots like myself? Since, by your logic, my pointing out the definition of the word and demonstrating how Talid does not fit that definition is a "semantic trick" of the sort "only used by bigots". Pointing out that someone, while plainly prejudiced, is not racist is hardly proof of bigotry. And attempting to point out the actual definition of words so that their meaning isn't cheapened by incorrect usage isn't either. SpartHawg948 18:12, March 31, 2010 (UTC) Sure this has nothing to do with him being racist but what happens if you kill him? Oh and he is xenophobic not racist similar sure but not the same.Derekproxy 00:45, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, xenophobe would be a decent descriptor of him. I would've stuck with just plain old prejudiced, but xenophobic works. SpartHawg948 00:49, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :He is definitely not racist. Humanity is a species, not a race. Xenophobic is wrong too, because he dislikes only humans, not all aliens, and the citadel is not the homeland of turians. IMO he is just a politician like others. Anyway, especist would be more appropriate. Croquignol 13:30, March 8, 2010 (UTC) This question was never answered - little changes if Joram is killed. Shepard can explain the decision to Thane, while Kolyat is shocked (proving he is not cut out for killing people). Captain Bailey does not care at all. Dr. Abysmal 01:32, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : Isnt racist still the accepted term for people who hate other people in the mass effect universe, even if the word is blatantly used wrong, like in the modern world there are a ton of words used wrong just about everyday like the word pristine, it is almost always used wrong. ralok 21:14, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Well, racist seems to be the word used for people who hate other people because of race, but that gets back to the issue of Talid. Does he dislike humans just because they are human? I don't think he does. SpartHawg948 21:26, April 19, 2010 (UTC) : well ok then, even if he did i dont think i could blame him though, you know how humans are (this joke was sponsored by the north atlantic sandworm riding league) ralok 21:33, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Barefaced? Are you sure he's supposed to be barefaced? The light patch that fades in on his face is a little iffy, but it turns into a very sharp stripe on his mouth/chin. I don't think that's supposed to be a natural marking. 22:04, October 13, 2010 (UTC) Dead? Spoilers for LotSB. After Liara is made the new Shadow Broker and you gain access to the Brokers' Lair, there appears to be a video on the terminal in the back which depicts Elias Kelam hitting a Turian which looks considerably like Joram Talid. Any chance of this being confirm-able, and addable to the page? --Dontask92 22:46, December 4, 2010 (UTC) :Short of a neon sign popping up with an arrow that points to the turian and says "THIS IS JORAM TALID" (or a BioWare dev confirming such), no. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:49, December 4, 2010 (UTC) ::More than likely not. First concern: Does this video still show up on a playthrough in which Commander Shepard kills Talid? Second Concern: Since it is possible to kill Talid yourself, there are obvious canon issues. Even if this turian (remember, it's turian, not Turian) is Talid, it clearly can't be taken as canon that he was killed by Elias Kelham and his vehicle. Third concern: Is this turian Joram Talid? Is there any provable identifier? Just looking like Talid is not evidence enough. Fourth Concern: Is the turian who was hit actually dead? Hit by a car =/= dead. So, I'm going to say with about 97% certainty that this is not something either confirm-able or suitable for the page. SpartHawg948 22:52, December 4, 2010 (UTC) :::Alright, thanks for the heads up then, I just figured I'd ask as that turian does look strikingly like him. But, I understand that it isn't confirm-able whatsoever, plus, as you said it could defy cannon. Although on your fourth concern, I doubt that Kelham would leave a job half-done, and assuming the car accident didn't finish him off (Even though I do see it as likely, due to the speed the car was traveling, plus the way the turians' body reacted to the hit by flying off into the distance. Forcing him to impact with a wall or the floor, or even sending him careening off of the platform they were on to fall to his death), then likely Kelham would have. Although at that point, we're both arguing about unknowns as to whether the unknown turian is dead, and how much Kelham is dedicated to making it look like an accident/how badly he wants the turian dead. I won't argue with anything else you said, of course, as you are absolutely right. Oh well, thanks for the quick replies :)--Dontask92 23:43, December 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::But your last comment is also presupposed on the idea that the collision was intentional, and I don't recall any indications that this was the case. It could just as easily have been a genuine accident. In which case, the idea that Kelham wouldn't have left a job half done is rendered moot, as there would be no job to be completed or left half done. SpartHawg948 23:41, December 4, 2010 (UTC) :::::Also true, however Elias is still a criminal, even if it were an accident, the turian would not have been left alive, lest Elias have to report to the law. Of which there is always the possibility of someone higher up then Bailey, who at the time was not as high ranking as he is after the events of Inquisition, whom is just waiting for an opportunity to bring Kelham in. Although, on that subject, any opinion would be moot, as we don't have the knowledge to back any of this up. --Dontask92 23:54, December 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::::But again, you are presupposing that the turian died. The fact that the turian flew off into the distance proves nothing. You'd be amazed at the physical trauma a body can survive. What I'm trying to say here is that nothing should be assumed. What do we know from the video? That Elias Kelham hit a turian with his vehicle. That's it. Assuming the turian died with no evidence to prove this, only subjective opinion, is just as big an assumption as stating that the turian is Joram Talid. To paraphrase your last comment, we don't have the knowledge to back up either the theory that the turian is Talid, or the theory that the turian is dead. SpartHawg948 00:04, December 5, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Exactly, you don't need to keep arguing your point, that was why I added that last sentence to my paragraph as well. It was merely intended to show that this whole argument has no point. Although I didn't intend it toward whether it was Joram, you already corrected me on that and so I have no reason to argue that point. You were right, it's extremely likely that it was not him, I told you I agreed with that earlier. I meant that final statement towards the conflict of whether the turian is alive, or whether he was killed. I think that both of us at this point are practically arguing for the sake of argument, as it stands. I get that we should not assume anything for the standards of this wiki, hence why I asked the question in the first place. I think we may as well end this now, as no matter where we go with it, it gets us nowhere, I already agreed with you about Joram, so I'm sorry I kept this going for so long. I had no intentions of acting like, well...a prick. Sound alright? --Dontask92 01:25, December 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Yes and no. In general, I like what you're saying. I don't, however, like the assertion that I am "practically arguing for the sake of argument". I'm merely trying to underscore the need to not assume anything, which is to say, not to speculate. Speculation s one of the biggest issues this wiki, and many other wikis for that matter, is confronted with. So, whenever discussions of this sort come up, with theories based on presuppositions and the like being bandied about, I try my best to point out that we aren't in the business of assuming, and certainly not of placing assumptions in articles. I don't argue for the sake of arguing, nor would I think to suggest someone else is doing the same. Other than that one glaring issue though, I concur with your statement. SpartHawg948 01:33, December 5, 2010 (UTC) :::::::And believe me, I get that. But, I understood the fact that assumptions don't belong here. That's why I asked this in the first place instead of, stupidly, attempting to edit the page right away. And so I can't help but feel most of this has been unnecessary, albeit I am the one who continued the conversation...sooo I think I'd better just stop posting on this talk page after this, before I come off as more of a jack***. :p --Dontask92 01:49, December 5, 2010 (UTC)